Brian & Arthur on parenting and celebrating 10 years of marriage

For Arthur Gourounlian and Brian Dowling, family has changed everything. Donal O'Donoghue meets the stars of the small screen to talk babies, trolls, loss and the bright side of life.

Last summer, just before the birth of their second child, the trolling started again for Brian Dowling and his husband, Arthur Gourounlian. "Things escalated leading up to Blu’s arrival," says Dowling. "Our address had been shared online so we contacted the Guards. There is a negative obsession with certain people in how Arthur and I live our lives. Maybe it’s because we’re two men."

Beside him Gourounlian interjects. "It’s not maybe, it is because we are two men. They were saying vile things like we are having children just to enjoy them and then pass them around. People will say we put ourselves out there so we can expect some reaction. And yes, I do expect it, but why say such horrible things? Now, on my social media, I just kill them with kindness. Anyway, why should I be silent?"

I can’t imagine Gourounlian – the effervescent judge with the big hair on Dancing with the Stars or Dowling – the Big Brother winner who carved out a career on TV and radio - ever being silent. They certainly aren’t when we meet in a Dublin hotel, in many ways ying and yang but on the same page when it matters.

Over an hour or so we talk of family (their daughters Blake and Blu were born with Dowling’s sister, Aoife, acting as surrogate), how tragedy (Arthur’s father died when he was 16, Dowling’s mum, Rosie, passed away in 2018) has shaped them and their innate joie de vivre.

"We’re both gay, we’re married and have two children by surrogacy," says Dowling. "All that stuff some people disagree with that we see as positives." Arthur nods. "I get messages saying, 'go back home!’ but such nastiness doesn’t affect me because I’m pretty strong."

In the early Noughties, just after he won Big Brother, Brian Dowling was the most famous Irish man on the planet, a fixture on TV and in glossy mags, and chums with celebs that only had a first name. "It was a mad, mad time," he says. "Cher called me annoying; Kylie rang me as well as Victoria. It was a level of fame that wasn’t comfortable looking back. But I was very much believing I was a mega star."

But a young dancer from Armenia, recently arrived in London and with only a smattering of English, didn’t have a clue who the Kildare man was.

"When I first met Brian, he was so famous he had security guards," says Gourounlian. "But I’ve never cared about celebrity, I didn’t give a s***, excuse my language, about all that. I just wanted to come to London to be a dancer and realise my dream."

That was in 2002. "Friday, December 27 to be precise," says Arthur who has, unlike his husband, a good head for dates. The couple dated for four years, broke up for five, reunited in 2011 before tying the knot in 2015.

Who proposed? "I had to because I was forced," says Arthur. Seriously? "No, he wasn’t!" cries Brian. "Omigod, there’s your headline: ‘I was forced to marry him!’"

On holidays in the Dominican Republic Arthur proposed on bended knee – or did he? "I didn’t go on my knee," says Arthur. "Oh yes you did!" says Brian. "Oh no I didn’t!" It’s a panto act. Ask who is the more romantic and you get ‘you are!’, ‘no you are!’ before Brian concedes he had to remind Arthur to buy roses for Valentine’s.

"In any case we’ll be married 10 years next year!" says Arthur. "Will we be?" counters Brian. And on it goes. But as I’ve said they’re in harmony for the big stuff.

Arthur Gourounlian was 20 when he first told his mother that he was gay. She was so upset that they didn’t speak for a year. "Mum always knew that the one thing I wanted in life, long before I ever came out as gay, was family. So that first question when we got back together was, ‘how are you going to have kids?"

If Gourounlian was set on family, Dowling, the eldest of seven (six sisters) from Rathangan was more circumspect. "If I hadn’t met someone who wasn’t so proactive in having that conversation about having a family maybe I wouldn’t have had children," he says. "Then, when my mum, Rosie, passed away in 2018, so young at 61, it made me truly realise how short life is and that I needed to stop putting stuff off. In 2018, just after we moved to LA, I had made the decision to have a family."

The couple chronicled their journey to parenthood in the TV documentary, A Very Modern Family, as well as the best-selling book of the same name. "When you are trying to have a family there are a lot of factors beyond your control," says Dowling. "In late 2021 I believed that this was not going to happen for us. Then the following month, just coming up to Christmas, things all worked out. Aoife got pregnant and Blake was born in September. I discovered that I was infertile when we were trying to have a family and I’m still trying to come to terms with that.

"I’m reminded every day by people I meet that my children don’t physically look like me. I have had to learn to deal with that reality but there’s no pity party here because I know that a lot of people who are infertile can’t have children. I’m just so lucky we have two gorgeous children."

Brian chose both names – "Arthur gave the DNA, and I gave the names" he says. "With the second child you kind of know what you’re doing," says Arthur. Not for the first time, Brian begs to differ. "Having a second child made me more panicky," he says. "You feel stretched already with just one and then with the second it’s Oh-My-Goodness!’".

"We’re so different," says Arthur. "But that’s why it works," adds Brian. Arthur would love to have more kids whereas Brian is happy with two.

"Honey I’m 47 this year, I don’t want to have 10 kids," he says, but adds that he’s still "a maybe" for now. We all agree that kids keep you young.

"I’m losing weight because I’m running around after Blake," says Arthur (45). Brian cocks an eyebrow. "Are you?" he quips. "For sure", laughs Arthur.

What was the biggest about becoming a parent? "The scariness, the vulnerability," says Dowling. "I’m in constant fear that something will happen to the girls." Beside him Arthur smiles and shakes his head. "I’m so different to him," he says.

Is Brian a bit of a catastrophist? "I think I’m still scarred from losing mam so dramatically," he says. "I still carry the trauma of her death and cry on her anniversary and birthday. She would have been 68 in December, so young. Now my life expectancy in my mind is 61. So I love my girls so much that I also live in fear of losing them."

"I don’t have that fear," says Arthur. "From the age of 16 I lived on my own, so I know that the girls must learn to live life too and be brave. Of course, I will do anything for them."

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Both men have spoken of the legal issues relating to surrogacy in this country and are currently pursuing Dowling’s right to be legally recognised as the parent of his children (it’s his sister’s name on the birth cert).

"I was on Ireland AM with Muireann (O’Connell) and Alan (Hughes) and said to them that they had the same legal rights to my children as I do," says Brian. "That’s crazy. The people that love the girls the most in the world are their parents, Arthur and I. My sister, Aoife, who is considered Blake and Blu’s legal mother, but she doesn’t want that. She’s happy to be their aunt. What if Arthur or I were to separate or divorce or something bad was to happen, what happens to me and my children? I just want some legal recognition when it comes to my girls, that’s all I’m asking for."

And the world rolls on, both men busier than ever with their careers: Dowling on radio and TV five days a week and Gourounlian tied up at the weekends with Dancing with the Stars, his fourth season with the show. "Being a dancer was the biggest dream for me but when I got the phone call for DWTS, wow! I’m still pinching myself that I’m working on it."

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The couple plan to celebrate their 10th wedding anniversary this summer. "We have had that conversation about wearing white again," says Brian. "We didn’t wear white," counters Arthur. Brian laughs. "Ah yes, I’ve never worn white darling!"

The event will be a celebration of their life, surrounded by family, friends and those two special additions since they first tied the knot in 2015.

"And this time when Arthur goes down on bended knee, I’m going to record it for posterity!" says Brian.